I’m one of the many people involved in freeing Kath Folbigg her in Australia. My involvement in the case started only in 2011. First, three corrections:
(1) The Judge did not find her guilty at the original trial just over 20 years ago. A jury did. Her prosecutor Mark Tedeschi did not lose any jury trial I can find in his 30 year career as a prosecutor, despite taking on the circumstantial and difficult cases, so you can’t blame the jury. Therefore, the trial was virtually over before it started - Kath Folbigg was doomed to either lose or possibly have a hung jury. The techniques Mark used to win all his cases at all costs - well, I’m not writing what they are here, but a decade of studying his prosecuting techniques was, well, breathtaking.
(2) It was a Judge at an Inquiry, not the Coroner, who made the findings that led to last week’s overdue quashing of Kath’s conviction.
(3) Kath Folbigg is a lovely lady, so Richard Gill in Netherlands and I should both feel flattered to see your accidental word Folgill.
So far we have identified only nine of Tedeschi’s prosecutions as wrongful convictions. So far, we've managed to help to rectify four of them, with five to go. This is not easy to do in a country with no CCRC and with the usual massive legal brick walls which guard the status quo. Winning Lucy’s appeal should be a similar nightmare. We’re slowly learning here how best to win such things - it’s not obvious.
If you want more info about the Folbigg case, which had endless twists and turns, please contact me. Either ask Richard Gill for my email address or search for “Facebook Australasian Bridge” then scroll down a bit to find me, then click on my name to private message me.
Sorry to get off topic, but ….
Sure, we all (here in Australia) know that the Letby case has virtually every characteristic that typifies the wrongful convictions we’ve had here in Australia, ie it’s 100.000% obvious Letby is innocent, even if saying that in certain circles is as unpopular as “saying Folbigg is innocent” was from 2003 to 2017.
One question - have any of the good people like you, Norman, Sarrita, Richard or Peter E been able to make contact with Lucy in jail? Does Lucy know that she’s regarded as 100% innocent by those few people with expertise in identifying wrongful convictions all over the world?
Good to know someone sensible was involved in her case!
(1) I was aware it had been a jury trial but it was easier (and maintained brevity) to report it in terms of the Judge's final verdict that included the jury's guilty verdicts (and the various appellate judge's upholding of that ultimate verdict - sometimes, like in the case of the 2019 inquest, on the flimsiest of pretexts) rather than discussing the jury.
(2) Yes, my mistake. I had it in my head it was coronial from the media reports, but I see the actual transcripts and verdicts I had read before writing the article were a 'special inquiry' held before Tom Bathurst J. It was the word 'inquiry' that threw me!
(3) I have corrected my Freudian slip. either I received a message from Richard or I mst have seen your name somewhere in the material I was reading and just slipped up when writing her surname that one time. D'oh.
I would love to hear more about the case. All I have at the moment that I consider reliable are the 2019 inquest verdict, and the 70+ page daily transcripts from this Special Inquiry before Bathurst J. Feel free to email me at my academic email account (Richard has my deets)
Was Tedeschi a bad, corrupt or simply wilfully blind prosecutor, or is it that he was simply very persuasive and determined? I found various commentators online describing him as 'suasive to the point of manipulative' (words to that effect), deceptive and unctious.
As yet I am not aware of anyone in the various merry 'bands' here actually getting to communicate with LL in jail. The information I had suggested that for the first 30 days after her verdict she was put into solitary and not allowed visitors. I had thought this might be to prevent her (a) getting beaten up, but more seriously (b) from instructing appellate counsel - but then her standing legal team filed a last minute appeal.
I have been dealing with health and work issues, but am keeping up with my reading on her case - and looking for ways to communicate my findings and suggestions that should not attract the wrong sort of attention (i.e. the implication of contempt - from the various publication bans in place).
Given my own practical history and having legal training I would love to be more involved in cases like these, but the requirement for an income stream has limited my ability to get more involved in such pursuits. Keep up what you are doing!
In response to some other comments, a vaccine expert tried to gatecrash the recent Inquiry but was shut down by the Judge, because vaccines have nothing to do with the Folbigg case.
Mark Tedeschi is widely regarded by the public and most of the legal community here as a great man, a hero, a fine advocate who put so many guilty people in prison. He’s not corrupt, absolutely no way. His persuasive techniques are amazing. No flourishes … the key is to get the full attention of each jury member, have the jury think you as prosecutor are the good guy, their friend, their confidante. The jury members are riveted by you as their guide through the maze. It works. After a while, the best defence barristers won’t take him on. For example, in 2010 only 66 Senior Counsels were qualified to take on Tedeschi in the Supreme Court murder trial of Keli Lane. A junior lawyer Sylvia Sloane asked 37 of them - they all said No, I’m not available. We use the English system where they have to take the case if they’re available, but I sense a certain reluctance. Eventually they found a SC, but it was like you taking on Magnus Carlson at chess. No chance. When Kathy Folbigg was in jail, she noticed that Keli Lane was one of the few innocent people there, though many of the other inmates were nice people. Keli’s still in jail, of course.
I wonder why Ben Myers was so ineffective in Lucy’s trial. I’m not sure.
I’m a bit busy - sorry I can’t write more right now.
Oh, dear - yet ANOTHER very complex case - and, like Miss Lucy Letby, arouses very strong and compelling suspicions that JUSTICE ITSELF IS FLAWED SO OFTEN. I have seen NOTHNG THAT CHANGES MY MIND THAT LUCY is other than INNOCENT OF MURDER AND BABY HARM.
This is good. But we now know that many of those symptoms and SIDS itself is induced by childhood vaccines. Coupled with what appears to be some genetic flaws running through the parents, and who-knows-what environmental pollutants were also implicated, this poor woman has gone through needless hell. All I can do is pray for her and hope that karma is alive and well for all involved in creating the substances that may have led to those deaths as well as party to her guilty sentence.
Possible childhood vaccine involvement also potentially a factor? The poor woman. How devastating to lose her children over and over again. I knew nothing about the case but thank you for the fight on her behalf.
I like Lucy......she has demonstrated Courage and Determination throughout her pre - trial, trial, and "conviction"........ the Beatles must have had Foresight when they penned the Classic "LUCY IN THE SKY WITH DIAMONDS".....for, surely Lucy shines and "sparkles" as a Diamond.......just like it said in Lucy's Poster over her bed in her (former) home. Thanks to The Beatles for describing Lucy so well.
Lucy - PERHAPS UNCONVENTIONAL ; SERIAL BABY KILLER.......NEVER.
(1) There’s an enormous amount of material available online about the Folbigg case.
The 2022 Inquiry’s website https://2022folbigginquiry.dcj.nsw.gov.au/ has heaps under its heading Exhibits, e.g. Exhibit 2-F in Exhibit 2 is the entire transcript of the original trial twenty years ago.
(2) My friend Professor Carola Vinuesa from the Crick Institute in London (who was the key witness of the 2022 Folbigg Inquiry) is now helping in the Greek case of Roula Pispirigou which is yet another Folbigg/Letby/Geen type of case where - once the authorities decide to pursue a murder agenda - they alter the types of death attributed to various children. Recent decades have seen a worldwide epidemic of wrongful convictions of nurses and mothers. For the Greek case, ref https://www.usanews.net/m/politics/an-innocent-mother-behind-bars-h121283.html?fbclid=IwAR3ztw3V4DgSKaK_RGshc5xZ6EipruW_9-NZBnULYHWEY_cbheclnyyQilw.
Judges ! How reliable are THEY, one wonders - and can they be held accountable…..or, as I suspect. do some of them consider themselves above and beyond “the law”. I ponder …. Christopher Lloyd.
I’m one of the many people involved in freeing Kath Folbigg her in Australia. My involvement in the case started only in 2011. First, three corrections:
(1) The Judge did not find her guilty at the original trial just over 20 years ago. A jury did. Her prosecutor Mark Tedeschi did not lose any jury trial I can find in his 30 year career as a prosecutor, despite taking on the circumstantial and difficult cases, so you can’t blame the jury. Therefore, the trial was virtually over before it started - Kath Folbigg was doomed to either lose or possibly have a hung jury. The techniques Mark used to win all his cases at all costs - well, I’m not writing what they are here, but a decade of studying his prosecuting techniques was, well, breathtaking.
(2) It was a Judge at an Inquiry, not the Coroner, who made the findings that led to last week’s overdue quashing of Kath’s conviction.
(3) Kath Folbigg is a lovely lady, so Richard Gill in Netherlands and I should both feel flattered to see your accidental word Folgill.
So far we have identified only nine of Tedeschi’s prosecutions as wrongful convictions. So far, we've managed to help to rectify four of them, with five to go. This is not easy to do in a country with no CCRC and with the usual massive legal brick walls which guard the status quo. Winning Lucy’s appeal should be a similar nightmare. We’re slowly learning here how best to win such things - it’s not obvious.
If you want more info about the Folbigg case, which had endless twists and turns, please contact me. Either ask Richard Gill for my email address or search for “Facebook Australasian Bridge” then scroll down a bit to find me, then click on my name to private message me.
Sorry to get off topic, but ….
Sure, we all (here in Australia) know that the Letby case has virtually every characteristic that typifies the wrongful convictions we’ve had here in Australia, ie it’s 100.000% obvious Letby is innocent, even if saying that in certain circles is as unpopular as “saying Folbigg is innocent” was from 2003 to 2017.
One question - have any of the good people like you, Norman, Sarrita, Richard or Peter E been able to make contact with Lucy in jail? Does Lucy know that she’s regarded as 100% innocent by those few people with expertise in identifying wrongful convictions all over the world?
Peter Gill in Sydney
Thanks Peter,
Good to know someone sensible was involved in her case!
(1) I was aware it had been a jury trial but it was easier (and maintained brevity) to report it in terms of the Judge's final verdict that included the jury's guilty verdicts (and the various appellate judge's upholding of that ultimate verdict - sometimes, like in the case of the 2019 inquest, on the flimsiest of pretexts) rather than discussing the jury.
(2) Yes, my mistake. I had it in my head it was coronial from the media reports, but I see the actual transcripts and verdicts I had read before writing the article were a 'special inquiry' held before Tom Bathurst J. It was the word 'inquiry' that threw me!
(3) I have corrected my Freudian slip. either I received a message from Richard or I mst have seen your name somewhere in the material I was reading and just slipped up when writing her surname that one time. D'oh.
I would love to hear more about the case. All I have at the moment that I consider reliable are the 2019 inquest verdict, and the 70+ page daily transcripts from this Special Inquiry before Bathurst J. Feel free to email me at my academic email account (Richard has my deets)
Was Tedeschi a bad, corrupt or simply wilfully blind prosecutor, or is it that he was simply very persuasive and determined? I found various commentators online describing him as 'suasive to the point of manipulative' (words to that effect), deceptive and unctious.
As yet I am not aware of anyone in the various merry 'bands' here actually getting to communicate with LL in jail. The information I had suggested that for the first 30 days after her verdict she was put into solitary and not allowed visitors. I had thought this might be to prevent her (a) getting beaten up, but more seriously (b) from instructing appellate counsel - but then her standing legal team filed a last minute appeal.
I have been dealing with health and work issues, but am keeping up with my reading on her case - and looking for ways to communicate my findings and suggestions that should not attract the wrong sort of attention (i.e. the implication of contempt - from the various publication bans in place).
Given my own practical history and having legal training I would love to be more involved in cases like these, but the requirement for an income stream has limited my ability to get more involved in such pursuits. Keep up what you are doing!
In response to some other comments, a vaccine expert tried to gatecrash the recent Inquiry but was shut down by the Judge, because vaccines have nothing to do with the Folbigg case.
Mark Tedeschi is widely regarded by the public and most of the legal community here as a great man, a hero, a fine advocate who put so many guilty people in prison. He’s not corrupt, absolutely no way. His persuasive techniques are amazing. No flourishes … the key is to get the full attention of each jury member, have the jury think you as prosecutor are the good guy, their friend, their confidante. The jury members are riveted by you as their guide through the maze. It works. After a while, the best defence barristers won’t take him on. For example, in 2010 only 66 Senior Counsels were qualified to take on Tedeschi in the Supreme Court murder trial of Keli Lane. A junior lawyer Sylvia Sloane asked 37 of them - they all said No, I’m not available. We use the English system where they have to take the case if they’re available, but I sense a certain reluctance. Eventually they found a SC, but it was like you taking on Magnus Carlson at chess. No chance. When Kathy Folbigg was in jail, she noticed that Keli Lane was one of the few innocent people there, though many of the other inmates were nice people. Keli’s still in jail, of course.
I wonder why Ben Myers was so ineffective in Lucy’s trial. I’m not sure.
I’m a bit busy - sorry I can’t write more right now.
Oh, dear - yet ANOTHER very complex case - and, like Miss Lucy Letby, arouses very strong and compelling suspicions that JUSTICE ITSELF IS FLAWED SO OFTEN. I have seen NOTHNG THAT CHANGES MY MIND THAT LUCY is other than INNOCENT OF MURDER AND BABY HARM.
Folbigg - 20 years fight (2003-2023), I'm lost for words, which is probably a good.
This is good. But we now know that many of those symptoms and SIDS itself is induced by childhood vaccines. Coupled with what appears to be some genetic flaws running through the parents, and who-knows-what environmental pollutants were also implicated, this poor woman has gone through needless hell. All I can do is pray for her and hope that karma is alive and well for all involved in creating the substances that may have led to those deaths as well as party to her guilty sentence.
Possible childhood vaccine involvement also potentially a factor? The poor woman. How devastating to lose her children over and over again. I knew nothing about the case but thank you for the fight on her behalf.
I like Lucy......she has demonstrated Courage and Determination throughout her pre - trial, trial, and "conviction"........ the Beatles must have had Foresight when they penned the Classic "LUCY IN THE SKY WITH DIAMONDS".....for, surely Lucy shines and "sparkles" as a Diamond.......just like it said in Lucy's Poster over her bed in her (former) home. Thanks to The Beatles for describing Lucy so well.
Lucy - PERHAPS UNCONVENTIONAL ; SERIAL BABY KILLER.......NEVER.
Christopher Lloyd.
(1) There’s an enormous amount of material available online about the Folbigg case.
The 2022 Inquiry’s website https://2022folbigginquiry.dcj.nsw.gov.au/ has heaps under its heading Exhibits, e.g. Exhibit 2-F in Exhibit 2 is the entire transcript of the original trial twenty years ago.
The 2019 Inquiry’s website https://2019folbigginquiry.dcj.nsw.gov.au/ has some stuff too.
Various flawed appeals from about 17 years ago are also found at http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgibin/sinosrch.cgimeta=&mask_path=au%2Fcases%2Fnsw%2FNSWCCA&method=auto&query=Folbigg.
(2) My friend Professor Carola Vinuesa from the Crick Institute in London (who was the key witness of the 2022 Folbigg Inquiry) is now helping in the Greek case of Roula Pispirigou which is yet another Folbigg/Letby/Geen type of case where - once the authorities decide to pursue a murder agenda - they alter the types of death attributed to various children. Recent decades have seen a worldwide epidemic of wrongful convictions of nurses and mothers. For the Greek case, ref https://www.usanews.net/m/politics/an-innocent-mother-behind-bars-h121283.html?fbclid=IwAR3ztw3V4DgSKaK_RGshc5xZ6EipruW_9-NZBnULYHWEY_cbheclnyyQilw.
Pardon that my austlii link doesn’t work, though such appeals can be accessed by searching the Austlii website or via the 2022 Inquiry.
Judges ! How reliable are THEY, one wonders - and can they be held accountable…..or, as I suspect. do some of them consider themselves above and beyond “the law”. I ponder …. Christopher Lloyd.
Would there be any childhood vaccine is my first thought. And how desperately tragic this whole situation.